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Ian Postles
Whatever the rights and wrongs of when the Centenary should be AML, AMHT and the Club are celebrating it this year and that isn't going to change!

So, people have a choice they can take the TVJL route and continue trying to push water up hill to support their argument that it shouldn't be happening or they can support those who are trying to put on some fantastic events to celebrate the beautiful cars that Aston Martin have produced over the years.  Yes, this event is expensive but perhaps less so for those like me who will have the additional cost of staying in London for the weekend and would have had to pay for NCP parking anyway.  As the Area Rep for Devon and Cornwall we will have two events celebrating the Centenary for Members to come along to but the Centenary Concours is one that I would not miss because I am sure that if you are not part of it you will regret in years to come not having supported it. 

I think it will be a spectacular event and my thanks go to those in the Club who voluntarily give their time and the hard work they are putting in to make these events happen. 
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Ockyclarke
Maybe if AML bring out a 7 seater Cygnet Verso we could all share and bring down the cost to just over a tenner each?
Paul
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AstonZagato
The advantage of celebrating the centenary this year is that, by 2020, we will have forgotten about it and can celebrate the centenary all over again.

I suggest a protest chant for those of us with poor memories:
"What do we want?"
"I don't know!"
"When do we want it?"
"Want what?"
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marcos
No (sensble!) answer to who decides on the 100 cars for the day. Is it a lottery, itis given to the 'worthiest members' or are we aiming for one to represent each year(ish)? Genuine question, I only live a couple of miles away so it all sounds fine to me.
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Ian Postles
marcos wrote:

No (sensble!) answer to who decides on the 100 cars for the day. Is it a lottery, itis given to the 'worthiest members' or are we aiming for one to represent each year(ish)? Genuine question, I only live a couple of miles away so it all sounds fine to me.


Hi Lewis,  I think the 100 cars on Broadwalk and the cars in the timeline or Concours are 3 different things - but stand to be corrected.  I am sure all will become clear in due course but looking back to the Windsor event last year where they had 60 cars in a timeline representing the Queen's reign the Club decided which models they wanted to represent each year and then asked Members to put their cars forward for the event.  Clearly some places were easier to fill than others and seem to recall Mark having to put out a number of please for certain models. I wasn't able to attend that one but remember seeing something on You Tube and it looked fantastic.  The process seemed to work very well and I would imagine they are currently choosing the 100 models that best represent the Centenary and it will move forward from there.  Hope that helps. Ian.
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TVJL
DB9 IanP wrote:

Whatever the rights and wrongs of when the Centenary should be AML, AMHT and the Club are celebrating it this year and that isn't going to change!

So, people have a choice they can take the TVJL route and continue trying to push water up hill to support their argument that it shouldn't be happening or they can support those who are trying to put on some fantastic events to celebrate the beautiful cars that Aston Martin have produced over the years.  


The problem with this stance is that it is to misunderstand (almost entirely) the issue.  

Anniversaries of things (in the most general sense) do not happen just once. Therefore (and as AZ has alluded to), the problem that has been created by AMHT (in particular) 'going along' (putting things very charitably) with AML's marketing exercise is that either we continue henceforth to abandon any thought of ever celebrating again the legitimate subsequent anniversary (presumably substituting 1913 for ever and a day at 10 year intervals) or at some point sanity will have to prevail and we will need to revert to 'actual' dates of events as our yardstick.

Either way, we will (and do) look ridiculous - and all because when Dr Bez says 'jump' some of us seem happy simply to ask 'how high?'. >
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John Purser
TVJL wrote:


Hitherto, we have always celebrated 1920 as the year of the marque's foundation.

Hmm - there was something in 1970 for 50 years (I wasn't there, my Grandfather told me) . Lionel Martin had a car of sorts running in 1915 so were they late ?
There hasn't been much if anything said in the other years, 1980, 1990 etc.  We have, of course, tried hard to have an annual bash - 20/25/30/40 etc years of the this or that model in recent past. The DB7 could be said to have been 21 years old in 2011 but was 4 years in the making. First design or first customer car ?  Next year coud be another party.
I have always thought of 1913 as the year because there is a history of that being the start of the designs and the thinking things through.
Some couples just celebrate their wedding anniversary, others also celebrate the day they met. If you think the KP event is expensive, just think of doing that to yourself every year !  Now, where did I put my tin-hat ?
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TVJL
John Purser wrote:

Hmm - there was something in 1970 for 50 years (I wasn't there, my Grandfather told me) . Lionel Martin had a car of sorts running in 1915 so were they late ?
There hasn't been much if anything said in the other years, 1980, 1990 etc.  We have, of course, tried hard to have an annual bash - 20/25/30/40 etc years of the this or that model in recent past. The DB7 could be said to have been 21 years old in 2011 but was 4 years in the making. First design or first customer car ?  Next year coud be another party.
I have always thought of 1913 as the year because there is a history of that being the start of the designs and the thinking things through.
Some couples just celebrate their wedding anniversary, others also celebrate the day they met. If you think the KP event is expensive, just think of doing that to yourself every year !  Now, where did I put my tin-hat ?


Yes, I'd do that John, since what you've said, me old china, ain't true. :-\

I need not reiterate the bones of all that was said in the 'My bottom' thread on this topic but suggest those interested (enough) take a gander.

The most important datum/date points are: 1913 - B&M incorporated; 1919 - first car of any sort (a Singer-based race car) to bear the A-M name; 1920 - first chassis for the production cars was made and delivered for A-M; 1921 - first A-M manufactured cars bearing the marque were offered for sale.

Therefore, on any view the 1913 date cannot be the birth of the marque. One might pick any of the other dates - but AMOC has always gone for 1920 so far as I am aware and no one seems to have taken exception to that stance.
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DB PHiL
Dont know if I can wait another 7 years Tim, might be dead by then  Angel! or  >
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Wedgie
One hundred iconic Aston Martins, each representing a chapter of the last 100 years, will grace the lawns in front of Kensington Palace.

Roger I
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geewizzpip
I (really don't give a shit about the date) will be (going to Kensington Palace) getting Rat Arsed (celebrating our wonderful marque) on the Saturday night as I (won't have to drive on Sunday) will be resting on Sunday.

Sounds good?  You bet! 
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LordBretSinclair
please excuse a poor old country boy but as this thread is entitled Centenary Concours can anyone tell me how I can enter the actual concours (not just park somewhere), and how much the entry fee is, thanks
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tony-hall-40
£100 for the concours...or £75.00 to visit in your car.....or...nothing at all if you are a member of the public...
Ooooppps...I did it again....
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NorfolkCarNut
I think something to commemorate the occasion along the lines of the excellent dashboard plaque personalised to the individual car given to all the Windsor timeline entrants last year would perhaps ameliorate some of the extensive criticisms of the cost. At least the club would be seem to be giving something back. Perhaps AML could be persuaded to fund this as a thank-you to all those who attend on the day. just a thought...
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tim_c
Just found this on my bookshelf
Registrar of Cars, AMHT
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geewizzpip
Ah yes the dashboard plaque.  I wonder what happened to mine?  Maybe still in the boot?
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John Purser
TVJL wrote:

of all that was said in the 'My bottom' thread on this topic but suggest those interested (enough) take a gander.

TVJL wrote:
1913 was the year that Bamford and Martin incorporated - true. But, they did so as car salesmen. There is no suggestion I'm aware of to support the idea that the two had had any thought to be car manufacturers, then or in the future.


Took me a while to find My Bottom and then I realised I'd been sitting on it all along..... But not on anything old china.

LM's biography by Tony Demaus was well researched, I believe, and this is a (shortened) quote from the prewar period "Martin's many successes in the modified Singer led to requests for modifications to customers cars.. Martin, already impatient at delays by collecting cars from manufacturers works and the amount of time needed to carry out modifications and tuning was already formulating ideas to build his own cars to an ideal. LM's 1400cc prototype LH7933 saw physical existence just before the first world war. "
John Martin (his son) also told me that his father had always enthused about how he had always wanted to build his own car, with his own name on it.
So I am aware of two suggestions, one from his only child who had no real reason to doubt his father, I'd have thought ?  Lifes too short to fall out, Tim.
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TVJL
John Purser wrote:

Took me a while to find My Bottom and then I realised I'd been sitting on it all along..... But not on anything old china.

LM's biography by Tony Demaus was well researched, I believe, and this is a (shortened) quote from the prewar period "Martin's many successes in the modified Singer led to requests for modifications to customers cars.. Martin, already impatient at delays by collecting cars from manufacturers works and the amount of time needed to carry out modifications and tuning was already formulating ideas to build his own cars to an ideal. LM's 1400cc prototype LH7933 saw physical existence just before the first world war. "
John Martin (his son) also told me that his father had always enthused about how he had always wanted to build his own car, with his own name on it.
So I am aware of two suggestions, one from his only child who had no real reason to doubt his father, I'd have thought ?  Lifes too short to fall out, Tim.


I have no desire to fall out with anyone, John. But, I don't think that means that I have to agree with everyone or anyone, either, just because it would suit some people if I kept my mouth shut on this subject. :-\

Keith (geewizzpip) says that he 'really doesn't give a s*** about the date'. This is a perfectly respectable point of view. He is expressing his opinion and, like a number of other things, everyone has one of those.  ;D

However, whilst he, you, and I are all entitled to our own opinions we are not entitled to our own facts. Like the 'usual' kind of journalist, you (and others) don't seem to want the facts to get in the way of what you consider to be a good / convenient story. You quote very selectively from one of my favourite car books. So, permit me to do the same.........

"Bamford and Martin Ltd. devoted themselves to the buying and selling and, where appropriate, to the tuning for performance, of current small cars such as Calthorpe, GWK and Singer." (p.

"A move was made in January 1920 from Henniker Place to 53 Abingdon Road, Kensington… The first true prototpe, known as ‘Coal Scuttle’ and registered AM 4656 took shape and was described in The Motor in November 1919." (p.

"Three chassis-frames were delivered for the new design from Rubery-Owen early in 1920 but only one car, the second prototype, was in fact assembled initially from these frames. This car was fully described and illustrated in The Autocar of 12 March 1921." (p.

"Fitted with a light aluminum cloverleaf body [the] final prototype gave the make its first win, appropriately enough with Lionel Martin at the wheel, at the Essex Short Handicap at Brooklands in May 1921." (p.

"The Autocar Buyer’s Guide for 1920, listing cars for 1921, had included the Aston-Martin but actual serious production was as far away as ever…. – the production cars existed on paper only." (p.

"In December 1922 Martin was approached by RC Morgan who wanted one of these [racing] cars... on 29 January 1923 a deposit for the car was paid... In February 1923 a similar car ... was delivered to WG Barlow ..... So, at last, some Aston-Martins were getting into private hands. ... A close friend of Martin's, a Mr Greenall... had the first production fwb car, No. 1919." (p.

The stance of anyone who maintains that the marque Aston-Martin commenced in 1913 is untenable on the facts.
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philmw
Where would you rather be?  Celebrating the union of Bamford and Martin here in 2013:



or with TVJL here in 2015/2019/2020:

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TVJL
Phil, would you like to take a little bet on that one?

In my opinion, there WILL be another celebration in circa 7 years time because this year's AML-induced jamboree IS a crass cynical marketing ploy. >
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philmw
I won't take your money from you Tim.  Anyway, you won't be there in July to pay me.

And roll on the anniversaries.  The more the merrier as far as I'm concerned.  Any excuse for a celebration of the marque.
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John Purser
TVJL wrote:
Like the 'usual' kind of journalist, you (and others) don't seem to want the facts to get in the way of what you consider to be a good / convenient story


I do understand your point of view and the facts as Tony Demaus writes on the post-war period are clear, but I'm no journalist (or maybe an 'unusual' one   ).
I did take the opportunity to ask John Martin about this topic. The Great War hardly helped progress of a embryonic motor car manufacturer. Life has always been full of 'what-ifs' ? What if the Archduke had moved at that precise moment, for example ?

People have always denigrated William Willson as the near 'wrecker' of AM in 1972. I interviewed him for about 3 hours. He'd wanted his point of view aired to AMOC. His story led me to feel he wasn't quite the bogeyman he's been made out to be. Oh dear, does that make me a 'usual' journalist ?
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TVJL
philmw wrote:

I won't take your money from you Tim.  Anyway, you won't be there in July to pay me.

And roll on the anniversaries.  The more the merrier as far as I'm concerned.   Any excuse for a celebration of the marque.



;D 

Phil, not sure I follow - how might you win such a bet in July? My bet (lest it was unclear) is that I won't be on my 'lonesome' (if I'm there at all) at the 2020 Centenary of the Marque (as opposed to the incorporation of B&M) Celebrations. :-)

As for your second point, I would have had no problem at all with attending/enjoying/endorsing/congratulating an AMOC celebration of 100 years since the formation of B&M (because I, too, like knees up). However, a not very good (or convincing) PR stunt (even from AML) is no cause for celebration in my book, particularly when it is endorsed by AMHT as being something that it is not AND doing so has the potential to screw up every comparable celebration in the future. gunbarrel!
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john curtis
Just as an aside, if I may. I seem to recall TVJL asking advice for camping at Le Mans.
Is this one of his holiday snaps ?
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TVJL
john curtis wrote:

Just as an aside, if I may. I seem to recall TVJL asking advice for camping at Le Mans.
Is this one of his holiday snaps ?


No, it isn't! ;D
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