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mcatlin
Thanks mark. It will be hugely beneficial to people like me to know where I need to spend my time efficiently. Will we received these sheets before Yeovilton.
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Rich5ltr
I think a published set of criteria would encourage newcomers, particularly owners of older cars where there is more subjective discussion about condition and originality. I have been tempted to enter my DB MKIII in the Feltham class especially as there have only been two entrants at the last couple of events. I know I wouldn't win but neither do I want to be humiliated. I had been told that as my car is in original condition I would score at least 60 points but then I started to think about the fact that it had a set of replacement wheels 10 years ago and the headlining and carpets have been replaced at some time, oh and it has a servo added so I may only get 56. Then at Rousham i saw entrants getting below 50 points and started to feel quite deterred from entering. If there was a published set of criteria I could at least enter knowing what's achievable by cleaning and preparation and what is not simply because of non-originality. I love these events and agree it's great to see a good turnout but it is quite daunting not knowing what one is letting oneself in for. Dare i say it would be a bit like entering a horse trial without knowing what the penalties are for hitting a fence or being slow.  ??? Rgds Rich...
Still burning hydrocarbons just for fun! 

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mcatlin
I was sent some criteria when my entry was accepted, presumably by Audrey. What i need to know now is where the car feel short to score only 45. If this is forthcoming then I can be encouraged for Yeovilton. \\i'm looking forward to finding out where it was or wasn't original.
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philmw
The points are a means to an end; a way to rank the cars in the class. If we are going to get so hung up on the points themselves then we present the judges of a concours d'état, and the writers of the rules, with an impossible task.  Do you start with 100 and have one removed for every item? How many non-original items are there in an RSW 7 litre engine?  Do you start at 0 and gain a point for each item of originality?  A Vanquish has more parts than a DB2/4.

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Rich5ltr
My understanding is that originality contributes 60% of the marks and 40% are awarded for cleanliness. I've also read somewhere how the 60 points are awarded e.g. 20 for bodywork, 20 for engine, 10 for chassis and 10 for the interior (or something like that). Theoretically a filthy but 100% original car should get 60 points but I agree that's not the point    As I say you wouldn't enter a "jump 'orf against the clock" without knowing if it's best to ride fast but risk hitting fences or take it carefully. 

Oh and I agree, modern cars are indeed much more laden down with the essential clutter of the 21th century, like air bags, electric windows and climate control
Still burning hydrocarbons just for fun! 

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RCVantage
Richard is correct 60-40 split in favour of orginality, a totally original car will score 60 points, the other 40 points are for Condition & Cleanliness.

25 for Engine, 25 for Chassis (inc Wheels), 25 for Interior & 25 for Bodywork (15 points for originality & 10 points for C & C)...

Martin, you can only ascertain your marking on the day, and if you want, talk to the Judge who marked your car, after the event this is not easy to accomplish, You could have a private word with Mark ? but rules are rules...

RC
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mcatlin
I was told, on the day, that I wasn't allowed to discuss my score with the judge concerned. Even after the prize giving. It wasn't the done thing. I'm just trying to find out how many points I lost through originality and why they were lost. It's not rocket science I would have thought.
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RCVantage
Agreed, it's not rocket science but without your car to talk through it's not always easy to remember specifics of every car judged...

RC
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MPD
V12 MCC wrote:

I was told, on the day, that I wasn't allowed to discuss my score with the judge concerned. Even after the prize giving. It wasn't the done thing. I'm just trying to find out how many points I lost through originality and why they were lost. It's not rocket science I would have thought.
If you are genuinely keen to find out where you have gone wrong, I am happy to meet up with you and go through your car.  I am always concerned that when i do this and I find fault, the owner takes it personally...

I am out of the UK for a considerable period of the year, but sure we could fit it in one Sunday somewhere and have a pint.  This offer would go for anyone who would like some more advice....I have revised the 'Concours Judges Guidance Notes' recently, that may be of assistance and I am happy to forward to anyone who would like sight of them.  Please just email me...
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mcatlin
YHM
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Webby
Mark Donoghue wrote:

If you are genuinely keen to find out where you have gone wrong, I am happy to meet up with you and go through your car.  I am always concerned that when i do this and I find fault, the owner takes it personally...

I am out of the UK for a considerable period of the year, but sure we could fit it in one Sunday somewhere and have a pint.  This offer would go for anyone who would like some more advice....I have revised the 'Concours Judges Guidance Notes' recently, that may be of assistance and I am happy to forward to anyone who would like sight of them.  Please just email me...
Why not make them available (to AMOC members only) via this website Mark? Just PM me...
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MPD
I must run this by the board before agreeing to this.  I do not see this happening until the annual seminar at the end of the year, when we gather to discuss the years events.  I cannot even guarantee that it will happen at all...I can but try!
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anthonyoade
I entered the concours for the first time, in the associate class, thought I would try and enter as a bit of fun and to get involved as I was going to attend anyway.
I know there are condition issues with the car but I did thoroughly clean the car before going and on arrival, even though I was later arriving than I wished.
Everyone who I spoke to made me feel welcome, including Mark's parent's who came for a chat, but like Martin I only had the information from Audrey when I entered, and what I had read in AM quarterly, which was fine, but perhaps someone on the day to welcome newcomers and explain what happens and what you are expected to do ( at the event, not cleaning wise) would be helpful.
I looked at the mark sheet but it only gave a total mark for each section,(this might be the case for associate class) which did not help me as to whether I had cleaned ok or could improve, so a chat post awards might be helpful. As I know the issues with the car I would have taken this constructivly not personaly.
These comments are not meant as a critisism as I thoroughly enjoyed the day and think it was one of the best concours I have attended in the last few years, but hopefully will help for future events to encourage newcomers to have a go and welcome them at the event and not be put off from entering again. (I'm not)
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Mr Toad
Have a lovely picnic,booze etc feeling important in the concours area having placed a bucket,polish bottles and a toothbrush near the car.
As soon as the concours results have been announced simply place a trophy,available for about £20 from any trophy shop on the dashboard of the car and then carry on with your picnic......
95% of passers by will admire your victory.......
you can then enjoy your drive home knowing you haven't got to spend 3 hours cleaning the car when you get home.

Oh Dear,I have been rumbled
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dwh
it was my first time too...and despite the studied indifference its nerve wrecking watching someone in a white coat building a sand castle in your wheel arch...however i entered in order to really see what is possible and to meet like minded people...and despite doing poorly....the fact that the car came from richard williams 8 weeks ago was the only reason i got any points....the love and respect for the marque is totally infectious and i had plenty of chats with judges and people who were kind and informative....i also think that you have to be a little careful with how you give out information on judges marking...all the judges were volunteers and the last thing you want is to make their day less enjoyable  because of disputes/disagreements......no video referee ...and yes...i do want my car to be in good a condition as possible even though i drive it all the time...its important for the marque ...so thank you Mark....you make me want to be a better car cleaning person.
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annereed
Belatedly, here are a few photos from the day.  Link is from the Area 13 page: http://www.amoc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=925&Itemid=51

Apologies for those who have been into the report before this, I thought it was still work in progress and just realised it was available for all to see.

Anne
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Rich5ltr
Some good pictures Anne, and nice to meet you. Am I missing something, which report are you referring to? Is there an event report on the min site or are you referring to one on your Area 13 pages ???  Rich...
Still burning hydrocarbons just for fun! 

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annereed
Rich

I had started putting pictures and words up on the Area 13 part but not finished it and hadn't realised it was published so others were looking at it in its unfinished state.

A report has now been written for the main social pages and will hopefully be going up soon.

Anne
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